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July 22, 2024
Next Level Network Insights with Progress | Episode #87
Performance Monitoring (NPM) and Network Detection and Response (NDR) are critical to day to day operations! In Episode 87 of Great Things with Great Tech, Anthony Spiteri sits down with Pavel Minarik, the Vice President of Technology at Progress, to explore the dynamic world of network performance monitoring (NPM) and network detection and response (NDR). Pavel dives int…
Performance Monitoring (NPM) and Network Detection and Response (NDR) are critical to day to day operations! In Episode 87 of Great Things with Great Tech, Anthony Spiteri sits down with Pavel Minarik, the Vice President of Technology at Progress, to explore the dynamic world of network performance monitoring (NPM) and network detection and response (NDR). Pavel dives into the intricacies of Flowmon's advanced network behavior analysis and real-time threat detection technologies, which are transforming how organizations secure and optimize their networks. Discover the journey of Flowmon, its innovative solutions, and its vision for the future of network security.
Performance Monitoring (NPM) and Network Detection and Response (NDR) are critical to day to day operations! In Episode 87 of Great Things with Great Tech, Anthony Spiteri sits down with Pavel Minarik, the Vice President of Technology at Progress, to explore the dynamic world of network performance monitoring (NPM) and network detection and response (NDR). Pavel dives into the intricacies of Flowmon's advanced network behavior analysis and real-time threat detection technologies, which are transforming how organizations secure and optimize their networks. Discover the journey of Flowmon, its innovative solutions, and its vision for the future of network security.
Key Topics Discussed:
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Flowmon's Origins and Vision: Pavel shares the story behind the founding of Flowmon and its mission to provide comprehensive network performance monitoring and security solutions.
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Early Career and Academic Background: Pavel discusses his background in custom software development and network solutions, and his PhD in informatics focusing on network behavior analysis and cybersecurity.
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Development of Flowmon ADS: The creation and commercialization of Flowmon's Anomaly Detection System (ADS) from university research, and the innovative detection techniques it employs.
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Integration and Acquisitions: Insights into Flowmon's journey through acquisitions by Kemp Technologies and Progress, and the strategic integrations with products like LoadMaster and WhatsUp Gold.
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Advanced Detection Methods: How Flowmon combines adaptive baselining, heuristics, machine learning, and signatures to provide robust threat detection.
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Role of AI in Network Security: The use of AI and machine learning to enhance Flowmon’s capabilities, streamline threat analysis, and improve efficiency for IT professionals.
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Real-World Applications: Case studies highlighting Flowmon’s effectiveness in detecting and mitigating threats, including a ransomware attack in the healthcare sector.
Technology and Technology Partners Mentioned: Flowmon, Progress, WhatsUp Gold, NetFlow, IPFIX, machine learning, AI, cybersecurity, network performance monitoring, network detection and response, network behavior analysis, data visualization, threat detection, anomaly detection.
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Transcript
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everyone who's ever done an IT Ops job knows about monitoring and analytics every day is a high stakes game of whacka mole where the moles are network issues and cyber threats just waiting make those dashboards turn red as more systems go digital it's a Relentless race to stay ahead of disruption always one click away from chaos but what happens when those trusty tools that we've relied on for years doing the same thing in the same way just aren't cutting it anymore today's episode of great things with great Tech takes us
deep into the world of network performance monitoring and Network protection and response with pavl minak the vice president of Technology AT progress his team at flon is at the Forefront of network Behavior Analysis providing it admins with the advanced tools they need to detect anomalies mitigate threats and ensure their networks are secure and efficient flowmon is revolutionizing the way organizations handle Network performance monitoring and security using cuttingedge technology to give it professionals upper hand in the constant
battle against cyber threats and infrastructure issues it's a look into how flomm Mon's innovative solutions are helping companies around the world stay secure in today's modern threat landscape this is episode 86 of great things with great Tech the podcast highlighting compan is doing great things with great technology don't forget to head to YouTube at jtw JT podcast or an all good podcasting platforms subscribe and follow and make sure you never miss an episode and now episode 86 with pavl Min
hey pavl welcome to episode 87 of great things with great Tech it's great to have you on here and you before we get into this whole history of of flowmon which is interesting and you know today we've got progress we've got flowmon I'm super interested finding out about the history give a little bit of background about yourself um you know firstly you know where you grew up I think it's it's good to sort of talk about lineage I think you're in Prague I love I love Prague Czech Republic great great
country great City but give a little background about yourself firstly before we get into the ins and outs of flowmon and progress hi Anthony sure thank you for inviting me so my background is I feel like being in it since forever uh thanks to my father I got access to this interesting technology since I started to visit Elementary School my father was a university teacher so he got very ear access to this technology so I've started to write code with my friends and even before going to uh University I was already building and selling
software to some companies and uh organizations who required some you know something to be developed for their for their specific purpose during the University study I took a job of an IT manager in Fairly large organization so that's where I got my experience with Enterprise it and just by the end of the study I was offered a very interesting opportunity very interesting project to work on which ended up to be Flo networks wow okay so you mentioned like I'm intrigued always in the background and you know
entrepreneurship of making your own software even before you were through your University like was that just for local um businesses Within where you were growing up or was it friends and family I mean I sold computers at University I was known as the computer guy who always supplied everyone's computer for all their projects until one day a hard drive crashed and someone's projects got completely wiped and then no one bought for me but that's another story but you know what what were the the nature of the programs that
you were creating back in the day my my customers were I would say small and mediumsized businesses across chck Republic and I focused on custom software development and I also focused on the computer networks so I was able to build them a network equip with routing switching firewalling so these essential Technologies to operate the network yeah so you you you hold a PhD in informatics from from maserak is it how you pronounce it maserak University M University yeah there you go got it right that's very good um and you're
also uh your background is Network Behavior Analysis and cyber security so you know give a little bit of detail about that is that still something that you hold on to is it something that you still you know practice I mean where do you where did you sit and where did you come out from after University so this is this is tied to flowmon networks so uh we started the so-called flowone anomaly detection system as a research and development project where we basically invented couple of detection techniques that were not looking for
specific signatures inside of the packets but we're looking at specific behavior in the network which is way more stable and is able to discover also unknown threats or zero day attacks and based on that University work we licensed and transferred the results of research and development into flon and we built and released our flon ads the anomal detection system in 2009 so the PHD thesis is basically tied to this work that dates back to I think starting 2006 okay how how in treat how that works because if you're doing it as part
of a University PHD and research and it's I assume you you got funding for that as well and you know that there was that sort of thing how does that transform into an entity or a company I'm I'm intrigued in that or is there is there a few steps along the way to to make it become something that you can take as an Enterprise well today it's I would say wellestablished process that has its standards how to define the transfer price how the contract should look like but going back to 2009 for example we
were pioneers of these technology transfers so we were discussing with the university Representatives how to do it right how to do it fair okay you need to sign a contract and you need to of course uh pay University the right price either in a like a one-time license fee or some percentage of the future business coming from this new new product it really depends on what type of product you're building in which state H you are with that product if you deliver something completely new to the market you can
have some percentage for the University if it's an innovation of something which is well established on the market you probably go for a onetime fee yeah and and okay I understand that and how does that compare to say something that would be say open source or you because obviously this there's there's an element of um the university sunk some cost into you and and into the research so I guess the university is looking for a bit of a a payback on that but it is there an option to open source that sort
of stuff as well is that yes you can take it it depends on the terms and conditions of these specific research projects basically what the funding agencies defined as acceptable but uh it's common practice that part of these results are actually made available to the community as open source but at the same time if you develop something really interesting really specific that has a commercial potential you don't want to just make it open source you want to license it to potential buyers who will really
productize this technology and go to market and of course give some money back to the university interesting interesting and and as a student who goes through those processes and gets to the PHD and then you know at what point do you think or did you think okay well I've got a product here maybe now I can take and you know become some sort of um Enterprise or entrepreneur out of it well we knew that since the very beginning since we started the project we knew that we want to develop something uh really Innovative that we
will then transfer to a company and go to market so it was for us it was clear from the very beginning that's awesome okay so go back to you those early days there in 20056 you had a prot type of a 10 gig Network flow monitoring probe so just talk a little bit about why that was so groundbreaking and what did it do differently to the traditional like network monitoring and I guess for all of us that have worked within any type of um Network any type of platform we know what network monitoring at the basic level is and we know typically
about WhatsApp gold and and that sort of basic metrics monitoring but what were you doing with flowmon that was different and groundbreaking imagine that now it's a year 2004 and imagine that you want to monitor the network traffic I specifically say the traffic not the router switches if they are you know online what is the CPU utilization what is the memory that's a different that's a different story that's the traditional it infrastructure monitoring but imagine that you want to monitor the real packet flow through
your network to understand what is going on so back then you had two options first was to deploy full packet or continuous packet capture solution that was receiving the copy of the network traffic and was basically storing that traffic for subsequent analysis on a large disc array this is fairly expensive it's fairly heavy and it can lead to like multiple RS in your data center the other option was to enable net flow or in general any flow export from your routers or switches but back then you will get to
sampling sampling rates like one to 1,000 which means one packet is monitored and another thousand packets is basically missed so I had no idea as well that I I didn't know that that was the reality of that sort of monitoring like when I when I was in those those roles I was thinking if we were doing net flow or something that everything was getting was getting looked at but you're saying there was a sampling rate that was happening there which is which is quite interesting yes but for traditional net flow use cases for
service providers like you know bandwidth utilization capacity planning billing dos detection I mean volumetric dos it's all good the sampling is not an issue you will get the volumetric statistics pretty much correct so for these use cases it was fine but when you wanted to leverage this technology in an Enterprise it environment for Network troubleshooting for performance monitoring for deep dive into root cause analysis of some Network issue net flow didn't help you you need to go for full packet which is time consuming expensive
complicated so imagine that it's 2004 and you have a device that is able to produce non sampled one to1 network Telemetry on a 10g link on wire speed so without any packet loss that was huge and this was a result of an research and development project funded by the European Union and as a result the uh evaluation committee recommended to commercialize this technology due to its high potential so first the idea was to sell the license to some exist in player in the market MH but then the final decision was to start
a spin-off startup like a new company that will license this technology and bring it to the market we we really revolutionize the way how you can monitor the network traffic we provided an alternative to this traditional continuous packet capture solutions that are usable in the Enterprise it environment which is which is huge right that's that's the whole reason for being you know flon today and was was there anyone else doing this I mean I hear about 10 gig Network in 2004 and that seems like not a lot of people were
using 10 gig Network so to to have this technology at 10 gig at that time was seems to me like it was way ahead of its time yes it was and it was also I would say a commercial issue when we started the company because there was no buyer for 10g wire speed they they need I was to say who's doing it yeah who's doing it yeah so so we very quickly realized that we need to scale down so we came with an alternative that was focused on monitoring 1G bandwidth that was way easier and cheaper to build because it
was purely software solution so then we had a product that scal down to the real Buyers Real users because for them 10g was science fiction yeah ex exactly I was going to say no one would have thought about it right so you you went super high end in terms of your The Proven ground and then realized from a commercial perspective that was too high and you had to bring it down so the F those 10 those 10 gig um sampling probes or whatever you were doing that were they hardware and software together to do that and then like you said you were
able then to just effectively do it in software which obviously worked out beautifully as well because that's that's the most fantastic distribution method that we had yes and it was important or it is important to realize that this way we were future proof so once 10g starts to become adopted in Enterprises we were by default ready that's right so this whole area this is Network detection and response or ndr so talk a little bit about that versus what we had traditionally say with what netf flow did or what WhatsApp
gold was what's the biggest difference when we talk about Network detection and response which is what I believe Gartner and those guys um sort of talk about it as today actually what is beautiful is that it's not only ndr it's not only Network detection response but it's also npmd Network performance monitoring and Diagnostics so imagine that you have a single source of truth about your network traffic single data that you leverage for both Network oper ations and security operations use cases this
is something we brought to the market like 2009 when we introduced our ndr capabilities so we were able to cover both areas from a single product single user interface all integrated and available for to facilitate cooperation between Network engineers and uh security Engineers so that was another way how we I would say changed the the market okay and um who were your first customers what was the type of customers that you were you mentioned service providers um T I'm guessing Telos and whatnot but what was your bread and B in
the early days in terms of who was you know buying the software well it's it's hard to identify a specific vertical because as the product is focused on the network traffic uh the traffic is same in very different Industries it's about measuring IP packets and as I used to say IP address in ch Republic and in Japan is the same you don't need different solutions for that IP packets in a bank are exactly the same as IP packets uh in a government organization so we got our customers from all the
different verticals but it's important to realize some some reasonable starting point you need to have a network big enough that you are in a need of such a solution so over time we saw that I would say our sweet spot customer starts at like 500 employees plus minus okay so you yeah so kind of higher level sort of Enterprise sort of customers maybe small to medium Enterprise and Enterprise customers absolutely it's like midmarket and above it's not for S&P yep I understand and I think what what's
interesting and we'll talk about you know where the solution today can really help because obviously you know I think from what we what we know today that there's there's a lot of nasties that lurk in the network and that can sit there doing nothing for a long time and a solution of this can help but back in those early days you know 20 2008 2009 10 11 12 you know what was the main primary sort sort of you know value prop for this technology going to a customer that's that's my favorite topic
because that will really explain what ndr is and what it sets apart from traditional signature-based approach or traditional anomaly detection focused on volumetric uh indicators so imagine that you have this one toone nonsampled detailed data that basically describ your network traffic in each and every moment so you can reconstruct all the network sessions that happened in the network in each and every moment in time which means that you don't that you are not limited to volumetric anomalies you can go beyond traditional statistical
analysis that will tell you hey you have a peak in your in your network you can you can discover even a single sessions where a malare infected device is contacting the command control center back you have this level of granularity so our value proposition was the ability to detect threats anomalies attacks that are hidden in the network traffic and that are not covered by traditional signature based approach if if you imagine traditional signatures they look for specific pattern specific regular expressions in the pack payload
which means it's by default slow and it works only for known attacks known threats where the signature is available and it work Works only if the traffic is not encrypted right while our approach is resistant to encryption it's highly scalable and you don't need a signature for specific threat so if the attacker needs to propagate somehow on the network and the attacker needs to propagate somehow in the network you will see this scattered footprints in the network traffic you will be able to find it like lateral Movement Like
exploitation of different Services attacks trying to guess the password or misuse credentials get from some user you see that in the network traffic you detect it and you reported how does that you know like you guys are known for your Innovative approach to the network traffic an is you know flon what understand combines signature and anomaly detection methodology you know how does the real time threat detection work and flon you know what are the specific threats that you can identify and mitigate you talked about a little bit
but maybe dig into it a little bit more I'm interested in that so so the the main or the essential aspect is combining different detection techniques you can find on the market various products that no doubt they are really great in the specific detection technique they are using so imagine that you have a system that is able to learn what are the normal patterns in your network and then detect deviations from that so what happens if the attre is already there when you deploy it it's part of the normal pattern so
how we differ is that we combine different detection techniques like adaptive baselining heris stics machine learning signatures as you mentioned reputation databases Behavior patterns so we have a full stack of different types of detection techniques that work together so what is missed by one detection technique is maybe detected by two others and that's what sets flon apart from what you can see on the market in ndr I get yeah awesome and that that makes complete sense it's just doing a lot more together because of the technology
that you've got you're you're able to look in deeper but the techniques that you use are able to detect threats not just based on pattern that are traditional but on all of your approaches to be able to monitor them I get it very much um going back to the history a little bit so if you look back in time so there was a couple of different Acquisitions through Flom Mon's um Journey what what what did that do and how did you kind of navigate that because I can see a couple of um Acquisitions um in
2008 uh where are we looking at 2020 Kemp Technologies and obviously the one where we currently sit which is by progress so mate and you've been there for the whole journey right so what how did you deal with that how did the company deal with that what was the reasons for that at at a high level and how has it made you guys more powerful and stronger today sure so we we actually have both experiences selling the company and buying other companies okay we' acquired I think it was 2014 or 15 we acquired a company
called fups which was focused on the application performance monitoring from the network traffic perspective so the technology was able to capture Network sessions reconstruct the TCP sessions par the application protocol identify individual transactions and tell you this is the network transport time and this is the application response time this is the SQL statement that was executed this is how long took so things like that which was a great addition to our portfolio because it's another angle that you can use to analyze the network
traffic so that was when we acquired a company now just before you go yeah just before you go forward I think that's kind of interesting because I do remember that VMware had a similar technology where which I remember I was deploying where you could actually uh see that the script the SQL scripts and then and you know and the time they were taking and you know how much CPU and how much pressure they and how much Network time they were taking so I remember that through the VM tools and through the analytics you could actually see those
queries so I'm guessing it's quite similar technology to what you just described I I don't think so because whenever you're able to measure for example CPU time you go with an agent so there has to be an agent on the database server to do that we did it completely agentless purely from the network traffic so it was completely passive it didn't touch the the server so we don't need to care if it's windows or Linux or what is the version we don't care we just care about the network protocol as
such so even if the let's say even if the supplier doesn't let you install anything on the server I don't care I don't install anything I will get it from the network yeah that's interesting yeah it just made me think about this moment in time that I remember being able to see SQL queries from the monitoring flow and it's it's sound like similar technology but obviously obviously different you know VM where they bought a ton of Technologies back in the day um anyway go go on after the
acquisition and then so you acquired and then there was an acquisition of yourselves so let's fast forward to 2020 we were already uh building flon networks for 13 years and we were you know European company with headquarters in ch Republic which is not the best starting point to do a business in the US right so the decision has been made by the company management and shareholders that it's probably time to find a partner that will help us to establish like true us present so we collected couple of offers and we selected Camp
Technologies as the best way going forward in fact the combination of a load balancer and say interesting cemp did cemp did load balances I'm I'm a load balancer dude I I love my load balances being a service provider guy and I remember the camp load balances because I used to look at them versus the other ones that I was using so I've just put in my head where the the name Camp came together very interesting yes and when we were negotiating the terms and conditions I would say I felt in love with load
Master with the load balancer because it was so lightweight and so easy and so fast to deploy like from downloading the VM to starting load balancing it took like 5 minutes yeah so it's it's outstanding and when we brought the products and Technologies together we have immediately identified an opportunity for integration between load master and flon so we have added the flon probe functionality the ability to monitor the network traffic and export Network Telemetry we added this to load master so now each
and every load Master is actually a probe that can monitor traffic that is flowing through its network interfaces that's awesome and it measures things like round trip time server response time R Transmissions because that's what the probe does so now you have visibility into your critical Company applications that you are load balancing and you have a elry that will tell you what is the server response time of a specific server which client has an issue with roundt trip time you have all these metrics that you can slice and dice per
application per server and interpret in flow mod so it's it's huge and there is no other vendor that is actually able to deliver you load balancer and npmd Technology at the same time awesome and then progress comes along not that long after that that yeah that was very very fast so we I would say we didn't even finish the integration of the companies together and uh the progress acquisition happened so I would say that as as Camp acquired flowmon it became really interesting in terms of the market segment in terms of
product so it was kind of expected that that um Camp will be acquired but it happened in one year from uh the moment where when flon was acquired by cemp and this way we became part of an large well-known when well established IT company that is publicly traded on NASDAQ for like 30 years so that was our journey how we got to progress yeah and progress um has links to what we talked about earlier WhatsApp gold and that's kind of all is it is that part of the progress portfolio as well so it's like you're almost coming full circle in
terms of you know what was and you guys as the modern it's all it's all coming together yeah and you guys have integration into what's yes it is as well that's that's another very interesting story because couple of years back before progress acquired camp and flon progress required IP switch which is the original WhatsApp gold company yes so then we were now having together in a single company it infrastructure monitoring whats up gold and PMD and MDR flow mod which calls for an integration which is of course what
we did very quickly after the acquisition I think like half year after the acquisition we were able to release a new version of WhatsApp gold that included integration with flowmon using flon rest API so now you can have your single pan of glass that will give you on a single dashboard Consolidated information from it infrastructure monitoring Network performance monitoring and uh Network detection response like the best of all worlds basically yes yes very good and whenever you need to Deep dive you just go
straight from WhatsApp gold into flowmon user interface to get more details about for specific events yeah very good I'm sure there's some awesome demos of that online on YouTube and on your website we I might link to that in the show notes so I want to spend the last sort of I think 10 n minutes talking about you know the modern use C we talked about what how you started and what you what you were you know really setting the company up for the technology for but today I think it's even more required right and there's
obviously we've got a linkage between progress flont and v um at the moment we have a great integration that we've come between the two companies but I think rather than talking about that give me your sort of outlook on where the technology can be best used today with the threat landscape that that exists within cyber malware ransomware and just people wanting to do bad stuff Within networks it happens every day right so how does flon help in that world I think this really didn't changed since we started because we as it
professionals Focus so much on preventing incidents mhm that we don't realize that once the prevention fails and it's going to fail we see it in the news every day what we are going to do so still way too many companies rely just on prevention and when prevention fails they don't have the second line of defense which is early detection you see statistics telling stories like average time of an attacker being active in a specific environment before being detected 100 days 200 days what if you can reduce it
to one day you won't be able to prevent it completely that's directional thinking but what kind of damage doer is able to do in one day compared to 200 days yep what's he not able to get what's he not able to learn because that's the biggest thing about an attack when someone gets in and they're they're learning about what's what they can attack and then when they actually execute it they've got every little piece that they need for a Maximum Impact event but if you can stop that learning then you're going
to stop the amount of impact to your point yes that's that's exactly what you need to do you need to break the Cyber kill chain as soon as possible you need to find out that you're compromised you need to be able to understand the scope of compromise so you can take some remediation steps so how does that work so how give give a give a very simplified example of where you know flon has actually helped um in this sense okay I'll give you an example from a heare industry which is fairly critical considering the data
they are dealing with so imagine this situation one of our customers had an ransomware infection and they discovered it through flon that notified the customer that there is a device in the network that is now encrypting x-ray images on the storage so they were able to stop it in like 1 hour so the amount of compromised images was low they were able to recover it from the backup and maybe three patients need to take the X-ray again which is completely different story if the attack goes undetected plus they were able to
immediately identify which device in the network is actually the source of the infection so they were able to take it down very very quickly so that's one very specific real example and I yeah oh that's awesome does your does the software Ian one thing I like about the software as well it's got a very nice intuitive interface um modern I like the way that that that it presents itself out and the way you can deep dive and whatnot do you work together with an MDR or an SDR solution from the security
companies together is is this how this works do work together better or are you guys sort of positioning as and like you just said in that health health example did they just have flowmon and was flon just what they used to be able to detect that back down from the security standpoint for detection they had only flon deployed but of course you need to think of other attack vectors it's not only the network and points are exposed to a lot of threats so you should combine endpoint detection response with network detection response and that's
that's another another I think important understanding or lesson learned uh there is no single Silver Bullet there is no single technology that will sort out your issues so I don't like promoting and marketing these Technologies like okay deploy this EDR and you are covered love okay so what what is your coverage how many endpoints in your network are secured all servers routers switches printers webcams xrays or specific industry devices forget about it you won't install EDR agent there so you need a combination of
network and endpoint to get covered y very good hey just a couple in a couple of U minutes talk about how a obviously we've taken 38 minutes to talk about AI which I think is amazing but how have is AI going to be fit into your you've already talk said that you were using machine learning but the technology that exists today how are you leveraging that to make your um platform better your system better I'll give you a very specific example first of all let me say that AI doesn't equal generative
Ai and the reason why I don't talk about AI is because for me it's natural we're using these techniques like since forever to build our detection capabilities so for me it's like normal thing if we take a look at recent Innovations we did so people are now struggling with the volume of events incidents signals they need to dig through so we have built an layer in our system that act it's like an I would say junior cyber security analyst that will sift through all the events and that will tell you look at this device it
threat score is very high or look at this device it threat score jumped up from 20 to 65 look at these new events that were detected you haven't seen this before it's new or look at this device it's scanning all over the place so it's an even summary that will shape your focus and it will give you starting points for your investigations and we measured impact so we measured that we were able to reduce time needed for an analyst to go through all these events by more than 50% so imagine spending half of the time
on going through your events based on an AI that is able to prioritize summarize and give you starting points of your investigations and more and more that's becoming the use case right it makes everything more efficient the smarter that you get like you're saying you're you're taking a job that could have taken hours before you're reducing it to to to half that time and no doubt you're going to make that even better in the future but obviously what you're also doing is making everyone else's job more
efficient by by leveraging that and the key point is is that that data is only going to get bigger and bigger it's only going to get larger and larger the more data is going to be flowing through the network as we as we get you know larger networks bigger bigger three PS all that kind of stuff more systems online so it's very important to have a network detention Network detection and performance Diagnostics it's important to have Network detection response everything that flowmon is um and I think it's a really great platform and I
think this has been a really great conversation to get the background of the company how it started and more importantly how you've been there from the start so hey thank you pav for being on episode 87 of great things with great Tech thank you Anthony thank you for inviting me hey just as a reminder thanks for listening into great things with great Tech please stay tuned for more episodes where we continue to highlight companies doing great things with great Technologies shaping our world don't forget to follow us on
social media jtjt podcast and follow and visit jtwj t.com for more great content on all past episodes if you enjoyed this episode make sure you subscribe to your favorite podcast platform and on YouTube please spread the word and if you feel like it drop a review tell your friends thanks for joining us and we'll see you next time great things with great Tech [Music]
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